Is marriage possible between me and my godmother's son if we love each other? / Orthodoxy.Ru

Question:

I apologize for my objections, although they are probably not mine, but rather my godmother’s. So she is persistently trying to prove to me, as is her husband, that this situation is not in my favor. You see, their whole family has been serving in the church for generations, they are knowledgeable people and understand everything. It’s me who is so unscientific and trying to figure it out. Do you think that a marriage between me and their son is quite possible if we love each other? Wouldn't this be a violation of any canons?

Please answer this question, I really need it!!!

Thank you again for your patience.

Is it possible to marry a godfather?

When a man and woman participate in the rite of Baptism of a child, they make a promise before God that they will not enter into intimate relationships with each other. And this is still happening, despite the decree of the Synod in 1810, which was discussed earlier.

The Church still cannot come to a consensus on whether godfathers can marry each other. Therefore, before marrying a godfather or marrying a godfather, it is necessary to obtain permission from the bishop of the diocese. True, this is done, rather, to calm one’s own conscience. If marriage between godfathers is truly a sin, then asking permission before sinning is very strange.

If feelings flare up between godfathers, then there is only one way out - either follow God’s laws, or follow your own mind and the call of your heart. In any case, this will not affect the fate of the godson in any way. If you believe the reviews, then marriages between godparents are fraught only for the godparents themselves with the short duration of their union.

By the way, you can now order wedding photo frames online with your photo for free in the shortest possible time. It's fast, original and not expensive at all!

Priest Afanasy Gumerov, resident of the Sretensky Monastery, answers:

The question you asked is a very serious one, so it is necessary to strictly follow the church rules. The VI Ecumenical (Trullo) Council in the 53rd canon determined: “For affinity in spirit is more important than union in body, and we have seen that in some places, some who receive children from holy and saving baptism, after this enter into marital cohabitation with their mothers them, widowers: we determine that from now on nothing like this will be done. If, according to this rule, those who are seen to be doing this: such, firstly, let them abstain from this illegal marriage, then let them be subjected to the penance of those who commit fornication.” There are no other council resolutions. Bishop Nikodim (Milos) interprets the decision of the Trullo Council as follows: “Over time, based on the place in the Trullo rule, according to which spiritual kinship is more important than blood kinship, both church and civil Greek legislation established marriage obstacles in spiritual kinship to the extent that whose marriage was prohibited even in consanguinity, namely up to the 7th degree inclusive. But since neither this Trullian nor any other general church rule mentions, except for the 2nd degree, further degrees of spiritual kinship in which marriage would be prohibited, then the prohibition or permission of marriages in further degrees is left to the legislation of local churches and at the discretion of the appropriate bishops” (Rules of the Orthodox Church, M., 2001, vol. 1, p. 539 – 540). The above comment concerns Byzantine legislation. Our local Russian Church did not introduce the prohibitions adopted in Byzantium up to the 7th degree, but in the spirit of the 53rd rule of the Council of Trullo established two prohibitions (Decree of the Holy Synod of January 19 / February 17, 1810): 1. the recipient cannot take wife, his spiritual daughter; 2. Godfather cannot marry the widowed mother of his spiritual daughter. In the “Handbook for the Holy Church Servants” by S.V. Bulgakov (M., 1993, vol. 2), on the basis of the decisions adopted by the clergy, the conclusion is drawn: “Thus, both the carnal children of the recipients with the perceived ones themselves, and those who have the same and the same recipients are not related to each other and therefore can marry” (p. 1184, note 2).

Since disagreements have arisen between loved ones on this issue, it would be spiritually useful to contact the diocesan bishop for a final resolution of the issue. It must also be remembered that, according to Orthodox tradition, children cannot marry without parental blessing.

September 17, 2003

Is it possible for a godfather to marry his goddaughter's mother?

Godparents: who can and cannot be a godparent, the responsibilities of godparents ARCHPRIESTS MAXIM KOZLOV, ALEXANDRA KUZMICHEVA

Briefly:

The godfather, or godfather, must be an Orthodox Christian. A godfather cannot be a Catholic, a Muslim, or a very good atheist, because the main duty of a godfather is to help the child grow up in the Orthodox faith.
The godfather must be a church person , ready to regularly take the godson to church and monitor his Christian upbringing.
After baptism has been performed, the godson cannot be changed , but if the godfather has changed greatly for the worse, the godson and his family should pray for him.
Pregnant and unmarried women CAN be godparents of both boys and girls - do not listen to superstitious fears!
The child's father and mother cannot be godparents , and husband and wife cannot be godparents for the same child. other relatives - grandmothers, aunts and even older brothers and sisters can be godparents.

Many of us were baptized in infancy and no longer remember how it happened. And then one day we are invited to become a godmother or godfather, or perhaps even more joyfully - our own child is born. Then we think once again about what the Sacrament of Baptism is, whether we can become godparents to someone and how we can choose godparents for our child.

Answers from Rev. Maxim Kozlov on questions about the responsibilities of godparents from the website “Tatiana’s Day”.

— I was invited to become godfather. What will I have to do?

- Being a godfather is both an honor and responsibility.

Godmothers and fathers, participating in the Sacrament, take responsibility for the little member of the Church, so they must be Orthodox people. Godparents, of course, should be a person who also has some experience of church life and will help the parents raise the baby in faith, piety and purity.

During the celebration of the Sacrament over the baby, the godfather (of the same gender as the child) will hold him in his arms, pronounce on his behalf the Creed and vows of renunciation of Satan and union with Christ. Read more about the procedure for performing Baptism here.

The main thing in which the godfather can and should help and in which he undertakes an obligation is not only to be present at Baptism, but also then to help the one received from the font to grow, strengthen in church life, and in no case limit your Christianity only to the fact of Baptism. According to the teachings of the Church, for the way we took care of fulfilling these duties, we will be held accountable on the day of the last judgment, just as for the upbringing of our own children. Therefore, of course, the responsibility is very, very great.

- What should I give to my godson?

- Of course, you can give your godson a cross and a chain, and it doesn’t matter what they are made of; the main thing is that the cross be of the traditional form accepted in the Orthodox Church.

In the old days, there was a traditional church gift for christening - a silver spoon, which was called a “tooth gift”; it was the first spoon that was used when feeding a child, when he began to eat from a spoon.

— How can I choose godparents for my child?

— Firstly, godparents must be baptized, church-going Orthodox Christians.

The main thing is that the criterion for your choice of godfather or godmother is whether this person will subsequently be able to help you in a good, Christian upbringing received from the font, and not just in practical circumstances. And, of course, an important criterion should be the degree of our acquaintance and simply the friendliness of our relationship. Think about whether the godparents you choose will be the child’s church teachers or not.

— Is it possible for a person to have only one godparent?

- Yes it is possible. It is only important that the godparent be of the same gender as the godson.

— If one of the godparents cannot be present at the Sacrament of Baptism, is it possible to carry out the ceremony without him, but register him as a godparent?

— Until 1917, there was a practice of absentee godparents, but it was applied only to members of the imperial family, when they, as a sign of royal or grand-ducal favor, agreed to be considered the godparents of a particular baby. If we are talking about a similar situation, do so, but if not, then it is perhaps better to proceed from generally accepted practice.

- Who can’t be a godfather?

- Of course, non-Christians - atheists, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and so on - cannot be godparents, no matter how close friends the child’s parents are and no matter how pleasant people they are to talk to.

An exceptional situation - if there are no close people close to Orthodoxy, and you are confident in the good morals of a non-Orthodox Christian - then the practice of our Church allows one of the godparents to be a representative of another Christian denomination: Catholic or Protestant.

According to the wise tradition of the Russian Orthodox Church, a husband and wife cannot be godparents of the same child. Therefore, it is worth considering if you and the person with whom you want to start a family are invited to become adoptive parents.

- Which relative can be godfather?

- An aunt or uncle, grandmother or grandfather can become the adoptive parents of their little relatives. You just need to remember that a husband and wife cannot be godparents of one child. However, it’s worth thinking about this: our close relatives will still take care of the child and help us raise him. In this case, aren’t we depriving the little person of love and care, because he could have one or two more adult Orthodox friends to whom he could turn throughout his life. This is especially important during the period when the child seeks authority outside the family. At this time, the godfather, without in any way opposing himself to the parents, could become the person whom the teenager trusts, from whom he asks for advice even about what he does not dare to tell his loved ones.

— Is it possible to refuse godparents? Or baptize a child for the purpose of normal upbringing in the faith?

— In any case, a child cannot be rebaptized, because the Sacrament of Baptism is performed once, and no sins of either the godparents, or his natural parents, or even the person himself can cancel all those grace-filled gifts that are given to a person in the Sacrament of Baptism.

As for communication with godparents, then, of course, betrayal of faith, that is, falling away into one or another heterodox confession - Catholicism, Protestantism, especially falling into one or another non-Christian religion, atheism, a blatantly ungodly way of life - in essence speaks of that the person failed in his duty as a godmother. The spiritual union concluded in this sense in the Sacrament of Baptism can be considered dissolved by the godmother or godfather, and you can ask another church-going pious person to take a blessing from his confessor to take care of the godfather or godmother for this or that child.

“I was invited to be the girl’s godmother, but everyone tells me that the boy must be baptized first.” Is it so?

— The superstitious idea that a girl should have a boy as her first godson and that a baby girl taken from the font will become an obstacle to her subsequent marriage has no Christian roots and is an absolute fabrication that an Orthodox Christian woman should not be guided by.

— They say that one of the godparents must be married and have children. Is it so?

- On the one hand, the opinion that one of the godparents must be married and have children is a superstition, just like the idea that a girl who received a girl from the font will either not get married herself, or this will affect her fate some kind of imprint.

On the other hand, one can see a certain kind of sobriety in this opinion, if one does not approach it with a superstitious interpretation. Of course, it would be reasonable if people (or at least one of the godparents) who have sufficient life experience, who themselves already have the skill of raising children in faith and piety, and who have something to share with the baby’s physical parents, are chosen as godparents for the baby. And it would be highly desirable to look for such a godfather.

— Can a pregnant woman be a godmother?

— Church statutes do not prevent a pregnant woman from being a godmother. The only thing I urge you to think about is whether you have the strength and determination to share the love for your own child with the love for the adopted baby, whether you will have time to care for him, to advise the baby’s parents, to sometimes pray warmly for him , bring to the temple, somehow be a good older friend. If you are more or less confident in yourself and circumstances allow, then nothing prevents you from becoming a godmother, but in all other cases, it may be better to measure seven times before cutting once.

About godparents

Natalia Sukhinina

“I recently got into a conversation with a woman on the train, or rather, we even got into an argument. She argued that godparents, like father and mother, are obliged to raise their godson. But I don’t agree: a mother is a mother, whoever she allows to interfere in the child’s upbringing. I also once had a godson when I was young, but our paths diverged long ago, I don’t know where he lives now. And she, this woman, says that now I will have to answer for him. Responsible for someone else's child? I can’t believe it..."

(From a letter from a reader)

It so happened, and my life paths veered in a completely different direction from my godparents. Where they are now, how they live, and whether they are alive at all, I don’t know. I couldn’t even remember their names; I was baptized a long time ago, in infancy. I asked my parents, but they themselves don’t remember, they shrugged their shoulders, they said that people lived next door at that time, and they were invited to be godparents.

Where are they now, what are their names, do you remember?

To be honest, for me this circumstance was never a flaw, I grew up and grew up without godparents. No, I was lying, it happened once, I was jealous. A school friend was getting married and received a gossamer-thin gold chain as a wedding gift. The godmother gave it to us, she boasted, who could not even dream of such chains. That's when I became jealous. If I had a godmother, maybe I would too... Now, of course, having lived and thought about it, I am very sorry about my random “father and mother”, who are not even in my mind, that I remember them now in these lines. I remember without reproach, with regret. And, of course, in a dispute between my reader and a fellow traveler on the train, I am completely on the side of the fellow traveler. She's right. We must answer for the godsons and goddaughters who have fled from their parents’ nests, because they are not random people in our lives, but our children, spiritual children, godparents.

Who doesn't know this picture?

Dressed up people stand aside in the temple. The center of attention is a baby in lush lace, they pass him from hand to hand, go out with him, distract him so that he does not cry. They are waiting for the christening. They look at their watches and get nervous.

Godmothers and fathers can be recognized immediately. They are somehow especially focused and important. They are in a hurry to get their wallet to pay for the upcoming christening, give some orders, rustle with bags of baptismal robes and fresh diapers. The little man does not understand anything, gawking at the wall frescoes, at the lights of the chandelier, at the “persons accompanying him,” among which the godfather’s face is one of many. But when the priest invites you, it’s time. They fussed, became agitated, the godparents tried their best to maintain importance, but it didn’t work, because for them, as well as for their godson, today’s entrance into God’s temple is a significant event. “When was the last time you were in church?” the priest will ask. They will shrug their shoulders in embarrassment. He may not ask, of course. But even if he doesn’t ask, you can still easily determine from the awkwardness and tension that the godparents are not church people, and only the event in which they were invited to participate brought them under the arches of the church. Father will ask questions:

— Do you wear a cross?

— Do you read prayers?

- Are you reading the Gospel?

— Do you honor church holidays?

And the godparents will begin to mutter something incomprehensible and lower their eyes guiltily. The priest will certainly reassure you and remind you of the duty of godfathers and mothers, and of Christian duty in general. The godparents will hastily and willingly nod their heads, humbly accept the conviction of sin, and either from excitement, or from embarrassment, or from the seriousness of the moment, few will remember and let into the heart the main thought of the priest: we are all responsible for our godchildren, and now and forever. And whoever remembers will most likely misunderstand. And from time to time, mindful of his duty, he will begin to contribute what he can to the well-being of his godson.

The first deposit immediately after baptism: an envelope with a crisp, solid bill - enough for a tooth. Then, for birthdays, as the child grows older, a luxurious set of children's trousseau, an expensive toy, a fashionable backpack, a bicycle, a branded suit, and so on up to a gold chain, to the envy of the poor, for a wedding.

We know very little. And it’s not just a problem, but something that we don’t really want to know. After all, if they wanted to, then before going to the temple as a godfather, they would have looked there the day before and asked the priest what this step “threatens” us, how best to prepare for it. Godfather is a godfather in Slavic. Why? After immersion in the font, the priest transfers the baby from his own hands to the hands of the godfather. And he accepts, takes it into his own hands. The meaning of this action is very deep. By acceptance, the godfather takes upon himself the honorable, and most importantly, responsible mission of leading the godson along the path of ascension to the Heavenly inheritance. That's where! After all, baptism is the spiritual birth of a person. Remember in the Gospel of John: “Whoever is not born of water and the Spirit cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

The Church calls its recipients with serious words – “guardians of faith and piety”. But in order to store, you need to know. Therefore, only a believing Orthodox person can be a godfather, and not the one who went to church for the first time with the baby being baptized. Godparents must know at least the basic prayers “Our Father”, “Virgin Mother of God”, “May God rise again...”, they must know the “Creed”, read the Gospel, the Psalter. And, of course, wear a cross, be able to be baptized. One priest told me: they came to baptize a child, but the godfather did not have a cross. Father to him: put on the cross, but he can’t, he’s unbaptized. Just a joke, but the absolute truth.

Faith and repentance are the two main conditions for union with God. But faith and repentance cannot be demanded from a baby in lace, so the godparents are called upon, having faith and repentance, to pass them on and teach them to their successors. That is why they pronounce, instead of babies, the words of the “Creed” and the words of renunciation of Satan.

- Do you deny Satan and all his works? - asks the priest.

“I deny,” the receiver answers instead of the baby.

The priest is wearing a light festive robe as a sign of the beginning of a new life, and therefore of spiritual purity. He walks around the font, censes it, and everyone standing next to the lit candles. Candles are burning in the hands of the recipients. Very soon, the priest will lower the baby into the font three times and, wet, wrinkled, not at all understanding where he is and why, the servant of God, will hand him over to the hands of his godparents. And he will be dressed in white robes. At this time, a very beautiful troparion is sung: “Give me a robe of light, dress in light, like a robe...” Accept your child, successors. From now on, your life will be filled with special meaning, you have taken upon yourself the feat of spiritual parenthood, and for how you carry it, you will now have to answer before God.

At the First Ecumenical Council, a rule was adopted according to which women become successors for girls, men for boys. Simply put, a girl needs only a godmother, a boy only a godfather. But life, as often happens, made its own adjustments here too. According to ancient Russian tradition, both are invited. Of course, you can’t spoil the porridge with oil. But even here you need to know very specific rules. For example, a husband and wife cannot be godparents to one child, just as a child’s parents cannot be his godparents at the same time. Godparents cannot marry their godchildren.

... The baby's baptism is behind us. He has a big life ahead of him, in which we have a place equal to the father and mother who gave birth to him. Our work lies ahead, our constant desire to prepare our godson to ascend to spiritual heights. Where to begin? Yes, from the very beginning. At first, especially if the child is the first, parents are knocked off their feet by the worries that have fallen on them. They, as they say, don’t care about anything. Now is the time to give them a helping hand.

Carry the baby to Communion, make sure that icons hang over his cradle, give notes for him in church, order prayer services, constantly, like your own natural children, remember them in home prayers. Of course, there is no need to do this edifyingly, they say, you are mired in vanity, but I am all spiritual - I think about high things, I strive for high things, I take care of your child so that you can do without me... In general, the spiritual education of a child is only possible in case if the godfather is his own person in the house, welcome, tactful. Of course, you don’t need to shift all your worries onto yourself. The responsibilities of spiritual education are not removed from parents, but to help, support, replace somewhere, if necessary, this is mandatory, without this you cannot justify yourself before the Lord.

This is truly a difficult cross to bear. And, probably, you need to think carefully before placing it on yourself. Will I be able to? Do I have enough health, patience, and spiritual experience to become a recipient of a person entering life? And parents should take a good look at relatives and friends - candidates for the honorary post. Which of them will be able to become a truly kind assistant in education, who will be able to bestow your child with true Christian gifts - prayer, the ability to forgive, the ability to love God. And plush bunnies the size of elephants may be nice, but they are not at all necessary.

If there is trouble in the house, there are different criteria. How many unfortunate, restless children suffer from drunken fathers and unlucky mothers. And how many simply unfriendly, embittered people live under one roof and make children suffer cruelly. Such stories are as old as time and banal. But if a person who stood with a lit candle in front of the Epiphany font fits into this plot, if he, this person, rushes, as if into an embrasure, towards his godson, he can move mountains. Possible good is also good. We are not able to discourage a foolish man from drinking half a liter, to reason with a lost daughter, or to sing “put up, put up, put up” to two frowning halves. But we have the power to take a boy who is tired of affection to our dacha for a day, enroll him in Sunday school and take the trouble to take him there and pray. The feat of prayer is at the forefront of the godparents of all times and peoples.

The priests well understand the severity of the feat of their successors and do not give their blessing to recruit a lot of children for their children, good and different.

But I know a man who has more than fifty godchildren. These boys and girls are right from there, from childhood loneliness, childhood sadness. From a big childhood misfortune.

This man’s name is Alexander Gennadievich Petrynin, he lives in Khabarovsk, directs the Children’s Rehabilitation Center, or more simply, an orphanage. As a director, he does a lot, gets funds for classroom equipment, selects personnel from conscientious, unselfish people, rescues his charges from the police, collects them in basements.

Like a godfather, he takes them to church, talks about God, prepares them for Communion, and prays. He prays a lot, a lot. In Optina Pustyn, in the Trinity-Sergius Lavra, in the Diveyevo Monastery, in dozens of churches throughout Russia, long notes written by him about the health of numerous godchildren are read. He gets very tired, this man, sometimes he almost falls from fatigue. But he has no other choice, he is a godfather, and his godchildren are a special people. His heart is a rare heart, and the priest, understanding this, blesses him for such asceticism. A teacher from God, those who know him in action say about him. Godfather from God - can you say so? No, probably all godparents are from God, but he knows how to suffer like a godfather, knows how to love like a godfather, and knows how to save. Like a godfather.

For us, whose godchildren, like the children of Lieutenant Schmidt, are scattered throughout cities and towns, his service to children is an example of true Christian service. I think that many of us will not reach its heights, but if we are to make life from anyone, then it will be from those who understand their title of “successor” as a serious and not an accidental matter in life. You can, of course, say: I am a weak person, busy, not very much a church member, and the best thing I can do in order not to sin is to refuse the offer to be a godfather altogether. It’s more honest and simpler, right? Easier - yes. But more honestly... Few of us, especially when the time has come to stop and look back, can say to ourselves - I am a good father, a good mother, I do not owe anything to my own child. We owe everyone, and the godless time in which our requests, our projects, our passions grew, is the result of our debts to each other. We won't give them back anymore. The children have grown up and are doing without our truths and our discoveries of America. The parents have grown old. But conscience, the voice of God, itches and itches.

Conscience requires an outburst, and not in words, but in deeds. Couldn't bearing the responsibilities of the cross be such a thing? It’s a pity that there are few examples of the feat of the cross among us. The word "godfather" has almost disappeared from our vocabulary. And the recent wedding of my childhood friend’s daughter was a big and unexpected gift for me. Or rather, not even a wedding, which in itself is a great joy, but a feast, the wedding itself. And that's why. We sat down, poured the wine, and waited for the toast. Everyone is somehow embarrassed, the bride’s parents let the groom’s parents pass ahead with the speeches, and they do the opposite. And then a tall and handsome man stood up. He stood up somehow very businesslike. He raised his glass:

- I want to say, as the godfather of the bride...

Everyone became quiet. Everyone listened to the words about how the young people should live long, in harmony, with many children, and most importantly, with the Lord. “Thank you, godfather,” said the charming Yulka, and from under her luxurious foaming veil she gave her godfather a grateful look.

Thank you godfather, I thought too. Thank you for carrying love for your spiritual daughter from the baptismal candle to the wedding candle. Thank you for reminding us all of what we had completely forgotten about. But we have time to remember. How much - the Lord knows. Therefore, we must hurry.

Source: N.E. Sukhinina. Show me the region where there is light from the lamps.